Author Topic: Starting issue with my 66  (Read 20417 times)

ouch1

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Starting issue with my 66
« on: June 01, 2010, 01:16:11 PM »
Ok here is a new issue. This started last Friday night and still continues.

After driving the car to and from work without a problem I decided to go get some coffee Friday night. The car started fine and ran perfectly all the way to my local coffee house. But after being powered off for about 3 hours I got into the car to go home only to hear a single click from under the hood. No dim lights, slow cranking, or anything that would say dead battery. I have had battery issues before, and when that happened I heard a long "click,click,clik,etc" from the Starter relay. But not this time around. Yet after having my friends car charge mine via jumper cables for about 10 minutes it started fine. I drove home without a problem, and when I got home I shut the car off and tried starting it again. And it started without a problem.

So this morning I got in the car to go to work and got the single click issue again. Now my battery is a red-top Optima that is about 10 years old, and my alternator was replaced when the engine was rebuilt about 6 years ago. Both have been working fine until Friday night. I tried jumping the car with my wifes f-150, and that did not work. I have spoken to my father who is a old school ford guy and he says that it sounds like the Starter Relay switch, and to try jumping the relay switch to see if the starter cranks over. He says that if it does crank then it is the relay switch, and if it does not crank then its the starter.

Oh joy....

Does anyone else have any ideas?

-ouch1

Soaring

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Re: Starting issue with my 66
« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2010, 01:29:04 PM »
It could possibly be the relay switch, (solenoid) but usually you get a rattling sound  from a bad solenoid rather than a single click.  Go ahead and bypass the solenoid to see if the starter kicks over.  If so, then get a new solenoid.
However, my suspicion is that you have a bad connection somewhere.  Clean the battery posts and cable ends real well, then clean the connection at the starter. 

66GTKFB

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Re: Starting issue with my 66
« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2010, 02:01:59 PM »
As Glen stated, connections. Get a battery terminal cleaner (the round wire brush type) and a regular wire brush to clean the ground cable connection at the block. Make sure that there is lock washer for that connection. Also, ten years for a battery is well past the average. Consider getting a new battery.
Jim

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Re: Starting issue with my 66
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2010, 02:54:03 PM »
Those red top batteries are obviously good batteries, but you are paying more than you need to for a quality battery.  Consider the "Interstate" brand.  And, get the highest cold cranking power you can get.  That's the only brand I have been using for the last 30 years, and I have never had a battery left me stranded.  I have a set of battery cables that are about 30 years old, and the box has never been opened. 

muncher

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Re: Starting issue with my 66
« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2010, 03:55:23 AM »
When i got my mustang...about 3 wks ago. I couldn't start it. I tried jump leads but no luck. Just a click like you. So the next day i bought a brand new battery and cleaned all connections. It fired up first time and has done every time i start it .....so far.
So as others have said try cleaning the connections. Good luck.

ouch1

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Re: Starting issue with my 66
« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2010, 10:22:45 AM »
ok so I jumped the Starter Relay Switch and it started so I figured out that I needed a replacement relay switch.  So I got one from my parts guys. We during that time it went dark, and I have minimal lighting in the carport where my car is so when I removed the Starter relay switch I did not notice that there was 6 wires not 4 connected to the unit. So when I went to install the new on there were 2 wires I did not know which connector to hook them up to. I got hte battery hooked to the left hand terminal, the 2 plug on wires hooked up to the smaller terminals, and the wire that goes to the starter hooked to the right hand terminal, but I don't know where the other 2 wires go. Both have large ring terminals that should fit on the right hand terminal. One wire is red, and the other is yellow ( I think ). But me being a doof I con't remember which way they go. I am afraid to fry some other wiring by hooking them up wrong. So I left them disconnected, and now nothing works. the car wont start, the lights won't work, and nothing has power. If someone could please post a picture of what it should look like and possibly a wiring diagram for a '66 v8 that would be great.

-ouch1

Soaring

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Re: Starting issue with my 66
« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2010, 01:00:56 PM »
Here's my '65 solenoid hook-up for my 289.  Yours should be the same. 
Sounds like you need to invest in a shop light.   ;D  Be aware that after you get it all hooked correctly, and the old gal still won't start that even new solenoids are sometimes bad.  If so, take it back and get another one. 

ouch1

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Re: Starting issue with my 66
« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2010, 02:26:24 PM »
Wow that relay looks totally different from the one mine has and had. The one for my car looks like a power transformer from a utility pole.

-ouch1

Soaring

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Re: Starting issue with my 66
« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2010, 02:38:38 PM »
Then I guess I can't help you.  I would have figured the '65 and '66 solenoids would have been the same for a 289.   See if this wiring diagram helps.
http://midlife66.com/wiring/66ignit.jpg

66GTKFB

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Re: Starting issue with my 66
« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2010, 02:46:10 PM »
Don't use Glen's solenoid picture as a guide, it's not a standard Ford part.
Before I look at my wiring diagram, let's use some logic: only one wire should be attached to the rear 5/16 terminal stud, the one to the starter. When the solenoid is actuated, contacts are made to provide 12 volt (50 to 80 amps) power to the starter (what would any other connection do to this terminal except to give power to an explosive device). It is a big cable.
That being said, the same current capability must go into the solenoid, same size cable, and that will be the the front 5/16 terminal stud. It comes from (and goes to) the battery.
The next thing is power to the rest of the car - headlights, wipers, radio, coil - and that comes from one of those large ring lug wires. It must have full time power and the only place that is available is the front terminal stud. The wire itself goes to the regulator, is spliced in the harness where you can't see it for inside the car stuff and will have a second wire that goes to the ammeter.
To charge the battery, you need a connection from the alternator, the other small wire.
Now we come to the tricky part - the two push on terminals on the soleniod. One is voltage to activate the solenoid. It comes from the ignition switch. The other wire provides a full 12 volts to the coil when the solenoid is activated. Normal running voltage is around 9 volts that is reduced from the normal 12 volts by that infamous "pink" wire under the dash. To be honest, I got to look up the colors for those two.
The colors:
Front 5/16 terminal stud -
- large power cable from battery - red (original color).
- small wire, large ring lug to alternator - black, yellow stripe. It goes to the connector for the alternator.
- small wire, large ring lug to regulator and the rest of the car and a second wire for the ammeter - black, yellow stripe and red.
Front small stud -
- small wire, push on connection, starting voltage from ignition switch - red, blue stripe.
Rear small stud -
- small wire, push on connection, full 12 volts to coil - brown.
Large 5/16 rear terminal stud -
- large power cable to starter - black.
The front large terminal stud is where the convertible top motor gets its power. This also is where some people attach a cable or wire to get unswitched power for a CD player, fog lights or coffee pot.
To jump start a car without using a key, use a short jumper wire from the front 5/16 ternminal stud to the front small terminal. Make sure you are NOT IN GEAR if you have a manual transmission.
Jim 

Soaring

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Re: Starting issue with my 66
« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2010, 02:56:14 PM »
Hmmmm.  This solenoid and how it is hooked up works just fine for my old '65.  I can't imagine any other hook-up that can work any better.  As far as I know, this is the original solenoid replica.  Show me the '66 pic of how it is hooked up Jim. 

ouch1

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Re: Starting issue with my 66
« Reply #11 on: June 02, 2010, 03:29:34 PM »
The one that I bought and the one that was in my car looks like the one in the picture I attached.

-ouch1

Soaring

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Re: Starting issue with my 66
« Reply #12 on: June 02, 2010, 03:46:18 PM »
The bottom line question, is does it work? 

ouch1

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Re: Starting issue with my 66
« Reply #13 on: June 02, 2010, 04:26:59 PM »
I'll let you know.

66GTKFB

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Re: Starting issue with my 66
« Reply #14 on: June 02, 2010, 04:42:58 PM »
The one that I bought and the one that was in my car looks like the one in the picture I attached.

-ouch1
That what a factory solenoid looks like. There are different color housings, early is a brown, later ones are black, and early ones had fine thread large terminals, late 67 types had coarse threads. Naturally, the markings changed from FoMoCo to Autolite to Motorcraft.
Jim

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Re: Starting issue with my 66
« Reply #15 on: June 02, 2010, 05:58:08 PM »
Those are what my solenoids have always looked like, my 2 mustangs and my trucks, I've never seen one like yours Glen.

66GTKFB

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Re: Starting issue with my 66
« Reply #16 on: June 02, 2010, 06:12:04 PM »
It's from an Allis Chalmers tractor. Glen's an old farm boy and will use anything to get ol' Yeller up and running so he kin plow up the South forty.
I've seen that type before but can't remember where - early 12V Ford, Sanford and Son's back yard, off brand replacement from a foreign country - who knows?
Jim

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Re: Starting issue with my 66
« Reply #17 on: June 02, 2010, 06:26:42 PM »
No, actually that solenoid on mine is factory correct for the '65  289.  It hooks up perfectly and works just fine.  If the 66's had a different system, then I can't help you.   Like I said before, show me another solenenoid hook-up that is better. 

66GTKFB

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Re: Starting issue with my 66
« Reply #18 on: June 02, 2010, 10:25:51 PM »
I doubt yours is factory. It may function as a factory installed one would, but all the factory solenoids on 1964 1/2 thru at least 1973 looked like the picture ouch 1 included, terminals at opposite ends.
Jim

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Re: Starting issue with my 66
« Reply #19 on: June 02, 2010, 11:04:59 PM »
Mine works just fine, so I guess I'll keep it.

 

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