Author Topic: Replacement shell, or the Original?  (Read 10199 times)

Nikolaeos

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 11
Replacement shell, or the Original?
« on: April 12, 2008, 01:48:39 AM »
I see there is a 1967 Fastback Mustang replacement shell now.  It is supposed to be higher quality than the original.  The catch is is that it is about $16,000.  Would this be a better investment than an original body that has to have sheet metal replacements here and there, or simply a degrade in value of the car?

Soaring

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 4279
  • Gender: Male
  • 1965 Mustang coupe 289, '03 Mach1, 03 Lariat
  • Mustang: 1965 coupe 289, and 2003 Mach1
  • Daily driver: '03 Ford F-150 Lariat
  • Location: Wimberley, Texas
Re: Replacement shell, or the Original?
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2008, 03:26:55 AM »
Personally, I think the new shells are like buying a kit car.  The part is obviously not original, but a rendition of the original.  I would rather have the original. 

Thierry

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 1379
  • Gender: Male
    • Used cars
  • Mustang: Had a 69 Mustang coupe
  • Daily driver: Sunfire
  • Location: Saint John NB Canada
Re: Replacement shell, or the Original?
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2008, 08:53:20 AM »
 From what Dynacorn has in their FAQ, a VIN number can be transfered to a repair part.
http://www.dynacornclassicbodies.com/faq/afmviewfaq.asp?faqid=3
 If the car has it's original VIN the value would not degrade. They say it is a higher quality than the original so that means it's not a perfect reproduction but how many out there had floor pans and sheet metal replaced? Is it always done like it should be? Depending of the condition of your existing shell it could be an interesting alternative and you will be sure that no rust will ever come back.

smallblockfloyd

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 21
Re: Replacement shell, or the Original?
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2008, 11:24:34 AM »
I personally feel it would be more of a kit car, or something you buy to build as a race only body.  That way you get an 'improved' body, you aren't worried about structural integrity, destroying a collector's item(how much are 40year olds with big banks spending on buying one, then paying someone to restore it nowdays?  Got a credit card?  Got a mustang!  stupid but true...) and the miles of other things that cna happen.

I personally feel it is also nice to have them, as a lot of movies today have to have the 67/68 shelby mustang, and destroy it.  i'd much rather know that they destroyed an all repro, then even destroying a clone.

Uhm, if you've got the money, why not just go ahead, and put independant front and rear susp on it, while you're at it, drop in a beast of an engine, and match it to a good 5/6 spd?

If you want a 67/68 fastback, i think that restoring an old one is the way to go.  if you want something to romp in, and you have loads of cash, buy the 'kit car'.  Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't mind racing one in an autox class, if the 'repro' body was allowed.  It should be, since it still would be the same length/width/wheelbase, but you never know.  it could be a grey area.

Thierry

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 1379
  • Gender: Male
    • Used cars
  • Mustang: Had a 69 Mustang coupe
  • Daily driver: Sunfire
  • Location: Saint John NB Canada
Re: Replacement shell, or the Original?
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2008, 11:40:32 AM »
 Yes, their shells are perfect to build custom or race cars and it will save the original ones from being modified but I don't see anything wrong in rebuilding a salvaged Mustang with a reproduction body. Even today, there is probably many Mustangs being destroyed because of the amount of work required to restore them. If I want to buy a restored one and have the choice between one with it's original shell with new quarters, floors, rockers... and one restored with a new shell and with all it's original VIN tags, I would choose the second option. At least, I would know there will be no rust coming down the road. Depending of the restoration quality made on the first one you could have a lot of surprises.

Soaring

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 4279
  • Gender: Male
  • 1965 Mustang coupe 289, '03 Mach1, 03 Lariat
  • Mustang: 1965 coupe 289, and 2003 Mach1
  • Daily driver: '03 Ford F-150 Lariat
  • Location: Wimberley, Texas
Re: Replacement shell, or the Original?
« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2008, 06:04:32 PM »
Buying a plastic body vintage Mustang would be like buying a 1954 Corvette kit car.  It ain't the same folks.  It is a fake.  I don't like fakes in cars anymore than I like fakes in people.  I put together a 1929 Mercedes SSK kit car so I know what I am talking about.  They are just plastic bodied "replicas" and in most cases don't fit together without some major adjustments.  The reason why those 1967 plastic bodies are being manufactured and are obviously selling for enormous big bucks is because of the "Eleanor" that was featured in the movie.  The idiots who worship that body style will pay anything to copy that movie car that supposedly ran 160 MPH.  It is not the body that makes a car fast.  Some people with too much money don't somehow understand that concept. 

Thierry

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 1379
  • Gender: Male
    • Used cars
  • Mustang: Had a 69 Mustang coupe
  • Daily driver: Sunfire
  • Location: Saint John NB Canada
Re: Replacement shell, or the Original?
« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2008, 06:26:49 PM »
No this is an all metal shell and licensed by Ford.
http://www.dynacornclassicbodies.com/ford_models.html

Soaring

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 4279
  • Gender: Male
  • 1965 Mustang coupe 289, '03 Mach1, 03 Lariat
  • Mustang: 1965 coupe 289, and 2003 Mach1
  • Daily driver: '03 Ford F-150 Lariat
  • Location: Wimberley, Texas
Re: Replacement shell, or the Original?
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2008, 06:36:35 PM »
Oh, OK....that's a different animal than the one that was posted on several other forums made out of fiberglas.  Well, I see no reason to not buy that body anymore than buying a replacement alternator or wiring harness if you can legally transfer the VIN number.  "Legally" is the operative word.   Go for it.... but the price seems a little high. 

rmodel65

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 681
  • Gender: Male
  • the mustang man
  • Mustang: 65 fastback modded
  • Daily driver: 1991 gt vert
  • Location: US
Re: Replacement shell, or the Original?
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2008, 11:38:06 PM »
its high but when you consider the cost of redoing a really rusty car then it will come in at about the same cash layout.

there are numerous things the car will need like a rusty parts coupe or fastback.  but it can be done but some of the coupe interior nic nacs arent compatible

Nikolaeos

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 11
Re: Replacement shell, or the Original?
« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2008, 12:32:46 AM »
So, are you sure, 100% sure, that if I get the VIN transfered, the car will maintain value?  Part of the reason I'm going Fastback is because they are a great investment.

Edit:
Well, now seeing that I can go buy a running, rust free 1966 Fastback for the price of buying the shell, I think I may keep the shell on hold.  But thanks for all the help.

Soaring

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 4279
  • Gender: Male
  • 1965 Mustang coupe 289, '03 Mach1, 03 Lariat
  • Mustang: 1965 coupe 289, and 2003 Mach1
  • Daily driver: '03 Ford F-150 Lariat
  • Location: Wimberley, Texas
Re: Replacement shell, or the Original?
« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2008, 03:36:21 AM »
Yeah, that shell is just too expensive.   I guess the supply is less than the demand.  Maybe a few more years need to pass before I would pay that much for just a shell. 

rmodel65

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 681
  • Gender: Male
  • the mustang man
  • Mustang: 65 fastback modded
  • Daily driver: 1991 gt vert
  • Location: US
Re: Replacement shell, or the Original?
« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2008, 10:49:40 AM »
So, are you sure, 100% sure, that if I get the VIN transfered, the car will maintain value?  Part of the reason I'm going Fastback is because they are a great investment.

Edit:
Well, now seeing that I can go buy a running, rust free 1966 Fastback for the price of buying the shell, I think I may keep the shell on hold.  But thanks for all the help.



depends on the law in the individual state but more than likely the answer would be no!
granted people are doing this without permission but it still doesn't make it legal

Soaring

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 4279
  • Gender: Male
  • 1965 Mustang coupe 289, '03 Mach1, 03 Lariat
  • Mustang: 1965 coupe 289, and 2003 Mach1
  • Daily driver: '03 Ford F-150 Lariat
  • Location: Wimberley, Texas
Re: Replacement shell, or the Original?
« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2008, 05:50:22 PM »
So, are you sure, 100% sure, that if I get the VIN transfered, the car will maintain value?  Part of the reason I'm going Fastback is because they are a great investment.

Edit:
Well, now seeing that I can go buy a running, rust free 1966 Fastback for the price of buying the shell, I think I may keep the shell on hold.  But thanks for all the help.



depends on the law in the individual state but more than likely the answer would be no!
granted people are doing this without permission but it still doesn't make it legal
No... You will have to treat it as a kit car.  You go to your local grain elevator and get it weighed once you get the whole car running and driving it.  Then you apply for a kit car title and license.  Been there, done that.  It will never be an original classic Mustang.  It's a bastard. 

Thierry

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 1379
  • Gender: Male
    • Used cars
  • Mustang: Had a 69 Mustang coupe
  • Daily driver: Sunfire
  • Location: Saint John NB Canada
Re: Replacement shell, or the Original?
« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2008, 07:31:28 PM »
 I don't see the difference between a car restored with all its sheet metal replaced by reproduction ones and one with a one piece shell. What makes one more original than the other?
 I heared a story a few years back about a rare classic Porsche or Jaguar being destroyed during a race. A few decades later someone bought the wreck, took the VIN tags and built a new shell from scratch. If you can rebuild your own car what would prevent you to cut the metal around the VIN tags of an existing car, and rebuild the rest of the shell with a Dynacorn one?
In my opinion taking the VIN from an old shell and placing it in a new one should be documented but if you can drive a car with an aftermarket engine why not doing the same with a reproduction body?
 A member from MustangAndMore contacted the Virginia DMW about this issue and here is what they told him:
Quote
I just got off the phone with the Virginia DMV. According to Jamie, at 800-435-5137, if there is no "certificate of origin" issued for the replacement body, I am allowed under VA law to transfer the VIN to the replacement body. Once the work is complete, I can have a state inspector/investigator come out to verify the work complete. The local investigator for Virginia Beach is Cassandra Hardy at 757-455-0881.

There is also a couple interesting links in this discussion if you have time to read.
Link

Soaring

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 4279
  • Gender: Male
  • 1965 Mustang coupe 289, '03 Mach1, 03 Lariat
  • Mustang: 1965 coupe 289, and 2003 Mach1
  • Daily driver: '03 Ford F-150 Lariat
  • Location: Wimberley, Texas
Re: Replacement shell, or the Original?
« Reply #14 on: April 13, 2008, 08:14:15 PM »
Like Steve said, it depends on the state you are trying to register that car in, but in Texas, you won't register a kit car without going through the procedures I described.  It is a kit car, and noone can argue that it is not.  Whether it is made out of metal, plastic or paper, it is not an original Mustang body, and not an original registered car. In order to register a new kit car, you have to follow my guidelines as stated by the DMV rules in Texas.  Bottom line, it depends on which state you are trying to register it.  But, in Texas, it will be considered a Kit car. 
As far as changing the VIN from one car to another, that is illegal anywhere in the United States.  That also includes the idiots in Virginia.   

smallblockfloyd

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 21
Re: Replacement shell, or the Original?
« Reply #15 on: April 13, 2008, 09:27:16 PM »
Well, I hate to be the person to ask this, but if it is a ford reproduction, as someone else posted, wouldn't it be legal to put all of the identification from the old hull, on the new one?  To me, if it is an oem licensed reproduction item, it is no different than buying a nos intake/cam, and showing the car as 'stock'. =\ 

Dunno.  depends how you look at it.  Not to support anything illegal, but a person could just transfer all of the identification numbers to the new hull and never say anything to the DMV, and not register it as a 'kit' car.  Very dishones, yes.  But, i am sure somewhere down the line, someone else will be doing it.  I also agree, about the whole statement about an old hull, with new rockers/floorpans/quarters being basically a new body.

Any way you cut it, it is expensive.  It would be nice if ford started producing a wider range of the reproduction bodies, for sanctioned races and such, but how many people can afford dropping what, 15k into a body.  But then again, i guess when you buy an old rusted out one, and put in new sheetmetal, what's the difference...

66GTKFB

  • Photo contest winner
  • *
  • Posts: 845
  • Mustang: 1965 GTFB, 1966 GTFB K, 1966 Hardtop
  • Daily driver: 1969 VW Baja
  • Location: Northern California
Re: Replacement shell, or the Original?
« Reply #16 on: April 13, 2008, 10:56:15 PM »
Back in my dune buggy days, a 1959 (and earlier) VW pink slip (California owners certificate) was the thing to look for to make a street-legal VW based buggy. With a pink and a bill of sale you could make almost anything - legal and otherwise - and we did. You didn't need inspections or verifications or anything. This practice was extended thru the 1965 model as 65 and earlier cars did not have a smog requirement. Now it's thru the model year of 1973 (Cal smog laws again).  However, the legality of a transfered 1967-68 Mustang VIN to a 1967-68 Dynacorn body is 'nebulous' at the best. The morality is a different subject - as long you inform a prospective buyer of the car's origin - a transfered VIN to a new body - you may stay out of jail. I wonder how many 67 or 68 hardtop VIN's will wind up on a Dynacorn Fastback body?
Jim

Soaring

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 4279
  • Gender: Male
  • 1965 Mustang coupe 289, '03 Mach1, 03 Lariat
  • Mustang: 1965 coupe 289, and 2003 Mach1
  • Daily driver: '03 Ford F-150 Lariat
  • Location: Wimberley, Texas
Re: Replacement shell, or the Original?
« Reply #17 on: April 14, 2008, 02:42:08 AM »
Well, I hate to be the person to ask this, but if it is a ford reproduction, as someone else posted, wouldn't it be legal to put all of the identification from the old hull, on the new one?  To me, if it is an oem licensed reproduction item, it is no different than buying a nos intake/cam, and showing the car as 'stock'. =\ 

Dunno.  depends how you look at it.  Not to support anything illegal, but a person could just transfer all of the identification numbers to the new hull and never say anything to the DMV, and not register it as a 'kit' car.  Very dishones, yes.  But, i am sure somewhere down the line, someone else will be doing it.  I also agree, about the whole statement about an old hull, with new rockers/floorpans/quarters being basically a new body.

Any way you cut it, it is expensive.  It would be nice if ford started producing a wider range of the reproduction bodies, for sanctioned races and such, but how many people can afford dropping what, 15k into a body.  But then again, i guess when you buy an old rusted out one, and put in new sheetmetal, what's the difference...
If it is a Ford factory body, then why doesn't it come with a new VIN?  It may be sanctioned by Ford, but it is not a Ford factory body and is not a Ford reproduction.   If you read Dynacorn's Ford page, you will very quickly see their disclaimer.  >>>>>Dynacorn International Inc. is not affiliated with the Ford Motor Company.<<<<<  Therefore, like I have been saying all along, if you use their body to rebuild your Mustang, you need to register it as a kit car, because it is no longer a Ford product. 


rmodel65

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 681
  • Gender: Male
  • the mustang man
  • Mustang: 65 fastback modded
  • Daily driver: 1991 gt vert
  • Location: US
Re: Replacement shell, or the Original?
« Reply #18 on: April 14, 2008, 04:54:46 PM »
i believe you will be able to order these cars in various stages,eventually. i believe if its around 70% then you get a vin it wont be a ford vin though

Soaring

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 4279
  • Gender: Male
  • 1965 Mustang coupe 289, '03 Mach1, 03 Lariat
  • Mustang: 1965 coupe 289, and 2003 Mach1
  • Daily driver: '03 Ford F-150 Lariat
  • Location: Wimberley, Texas
Re: Replacement shell, or the Original?
« Reply #19 on: April 14, 2008, 05:48:56 PM »
Yeah, I got a new VIN for my 1929 Mercedes replica, but it was certainly not a Mercedes VIN.  That way, I could register it and get tags for it.  That will be the same procedure anyone will have to follow if they buy this shell.  The DMV could care less what engine, tranny, rear or any other mechanical things you have changed on your Mustang.  They only register the body VIN number that is stamped on the original body.  So, going back to the original question, yes it will lower the value of the 67 fastback because the VIN will not state that it is a 1967 Ford Mustang Fastback.  It will be a number about 6 digits long that are just numbers.....no letters.  Again...it is illegal to transfer an Original VIN from one car to another.  And, here are some of the reasons why it is illegal.


Types of VIN Scams

Vehicle Identification Numbers (VINs) are serial numbers for vehicles that are used to differentiate similar makes and models. Similar to social security numbers, every vehicle has a unique VIN. VIN plates are located on the dashboard and can be viewed through the windshield.

VIN Switch: Thieves use VIN switching to disguise the identity of a stolen vehicle. They will replace the VIN on a stolen vehicle with a VIN that is not recorded as stolen. The thief will then try to resell the stolen car to an unsuspecting customer. Some VIN switchers will also create fraudulent title and registrations to go along with the vehicle.

Salvage Switch: A vehicle that is extensively damaged. burned or stripped. and determined not to be eligible for repair is called ..salvaged... Thieves buy a salvaged vehicle just to obtain the title and the VIN. Then, they go out and steal a car that is the same make and model. and switch the VIN plates. The thieves then claim that the stolen car is in fact the salvaged one that is rebuilt. register the vehicle using the phony information, and then resell it to an innocent purchaser.

Strip and Run: A car thief steals a car. strips it for the parts. then abandons it. Eventually. police recover the vehicle and cancel the theft record. The . thieves purchase the vehicle’s frame at an insurance . or police auto auction and then re-attach the stolen parts. resulting in a car that is no longer listed as stolen.


 

+-Navigation

Other languages
ESPANOL
FRANCAIS
Soaring
Soaring
In memory of our moderator Glen Wren AKA Soaring
1943-2011
Links



Dallas Mustang


Menu
LO-FI Version
Mustang classifieds
Muscle car classifieds
Classic Mustang FAQ


Mustangs for sale


Top Posters

Soaring
Posts: 4279
Thierry
Posts: 1379
66GTKFB
Posts: 845
rmodel65
Posts: 681
Jeff73Mach1
Posts: 471

Used Cars for sale - Ford Mustang classifieds - Forum Camaro FR

Powered by EzPortal