351 cleveland cylinder sleeves?

[smallblockfloyd]

Ok, I was out of town until a few hours ago.  I looked over the engine bay, and all of the parts I had.  I started figuring the cost of gas I would arguably save, then compaired to the cost of dropping in the 289, I think it would be in the long run, the same cost, to keep the cleveland.

So, the question is, does anyone know if there are sleeves for the cleveland block?  I was thinking that since the bore/stroke is similar to the windsor, they should be interchangable for iron blocks, and std bore.

thanks for dealing with my jumping back and forth :-p.  Also, I went and checked the axle code, and it is a 3.25 'conventional' rear.  Sorry, i've had her parked for a while now, and have had a lot of things happen since i last played with her.

[66GTKFB]

The simple answer is yes. The hard part is getting a good machine shop to do the work. Note - 'good'.
Jim

[smallblockfloyd]

Lol.  So, where do i find the sleeves?  And, I was already aware i would have to have a reputable shop perform the work.  I had talked about having the block sleeved a few years back, and had heard that it was generally $100-150 a cylinder to sleeve.  Anyone have a general estimate for price range?

Anything I should be sure to ask a shop, if I go ahead and get it sleeved?  Things I should be aware of?  Sorry for all of the stupid questions, I've never had a block sleeved before.

[66GTKFB]

Almost every auto machine shop has a source for sleeves so let them do the leg work. Your price estimate is about right to sleeve a block above the cost of doing a 0.020 or 0.030 overbore which should be all done at the same time.
Jim

[smallblockfloyd]

Well, my block is already .03 over.  As it is a thin-wall cast block*grumble*, i have to sleeve it to save it.  I am not going to punch it out any more.  As I have never had a block sleeved, I am curious, would the shop need to line hone the cylinders a bit, to clean them up, or would they just fit the sleeves as is?

thanks for all of the help.  I will be speaking with some of the local racers, and see if anyone knows of a reputable shop for sleeving.

thanks for all of the help.

[Soaring]

You can buy sleeves most anywhere, but like Jim said, the shop should get them for you. They can buy them wholesale. http://shopping.yahoo.com/search;_ylc=X3oDMTIzOTVxaTRxBF9TAzc4NDcxNzI0MARfcwMxNDQ4OTExNQRwcnRucl9pZAMyMTE4MTE4BHNlYwNhZmZpbGlhdGUEc2xrA2xhbmRpbmc-?rd=1&p=Cylinder%20Sleeve&view=g&affiliate=rw&AID=10473284&PID=2118118&SID=CTTys7k270496-28552
What I would do is tear the engine completely down and just take the block to the machine shops and listen to what they have to say, and how much it will cost.  It's pretty easy to figure out which of the machine shops are good and which ones are bad.  I hope you realize that sleeving that 351 block will be about the same cost as a remanned one.  Think along those lines during your research before you pursue sleeving.  I have never had any faith in a sleeved engine. 

[smallblockfloyd]

Why no faith in a sleeved engine?  Also, while this is off topic, I forgot what tooth count the 'older' engines used on the flywheel.  Isn't 164 the tooth count, before the 5.0 got the different firing order(Which happened with EFI if I recall), then it became 157?  Or is it the other way around?  My flywheel has a couple teeth knocked off, and i am replacing it.  Thanks for the constant help, James.

[Soaring]

It's the other way around.  Sleeving an engine is a stop gap measure in my opinion.  That thin sleeve will last about as long as it takes me to walk my dog before it wears through and you are back to square one.  Hey....why don't you do it right and save your money in a cookie jar in the back yard, and eventually get enough to buy a crate engine that will have all the latest performance parts already installed.  Then you can start saving for all the performance undercarriage parts so that your rolling carriage can actually support the HP and torque and weight that engine will give you.  Then you can save for the right rear end to support that new engine and transmission and undercarriage.  Do you see the drift?  Power costs money.  And a lot of it. 

[smallblockfloyd]

Eh...  ok.  But it is made of iron.  And if they wore out so fast, it would mean aluminum blocks would be suffering vast amounts of damage quickly.  That is just my take on it, and i am not arguing with you.  But, I want a cleveland, not a windsor block, with cleveland mains(performance blocks), and I don't want a crate engine either.

There is a guy who is in the test casting phases atm, with aluminum/iron cleveland blocks.  It's using a windsor based oiling system for saftey/performance reasons, but it is more true to what i would want.

Anyways, I just want to sleeve the engine for when i restore the car to stock.  atm I am in the process of buying a recently rebuilt cleveland to move it.

Also, what tooth count did the 60-late 70's 289-302-351w-351c use from the factory?  I used to know, but i've forgotten.  I need a new flywheel anyway i go.  Mine had a few teeth chipped off of it, so it's time to replace.  I was looking at like summitracing/jegs but they list both 157/164 flywheels for the cleveland.  so =\.

Thanks for all the help and opinions, James.

[Soaring]

Why are you mixing up aluminum and iron and steel for sleeves?   Are you sure you know what your are talking about? 

[smallblockfloyd]

The only mention I had of aluminum, was speaking of an aftermarket block(also producing iron blocks with the aluminum ones), that is in test phase production. 

I typo'ed.  I mean steel, but it isn't what got typed in.  I appologize.

Anyways, I was just asking what everyones opinions on sleeving were.  But, can you please tell me what the tooth count is?  I've been looking and haven't found anything conclusive one way or another.  I am thinking it would be 164, but i am probably wrong.  I was working on this almost three years ago, and it got parked, and sat due to life's changes.  I'm trying to get everything going again, but i have forgotten most of what I researched/plotted.

Thanks for helping, James.

[rmodel65]

ok a sleeved engine is just as strong if not stronger than a stock block, does the block need sleeving to begin with are the cylinder bad enough you cant hone and go from there?  the flywheel tooth count is gonna depend on the tranny bellhousing c4 have small and large 157/164 then c6 and fmx's use 164 iirc

[Soaring]

Ya see.....there are going to be differing opinions in a forum regarding any subject, that also includes "to sleeve or not to sleeve."   
If it were mine, I wouldn't mainly because to sleeve a block costs about as much as one that has a fresh 0.030 bore.  And, I don't believe a sleeved block is as strong as one that is not sleeved.  My opinion.  289-302-351W and 351C are all 28 oz. flywheels. The 1981 and up small block, also known as the 5.0 was a 50 oz. flywheel. You can use any of the 28 oz. flywheels on your Clevo, most of the aluminum bellhousings are for the small 157 tooth flywheel, and the cast iron bell housings are for the big 164 tooth flywheel. There are also some aluminum big flywheel bellhousings that will work, they are off early 80's pickups. You can use either one as long as you have the correct flywheel for the bellhousing you have.