Author Topic: I need to borrow a 4.6L tech nerd...  (Read 6293 times)

del82

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I need to borrow a 4.6L tech nerd...
« on: January 13, 2009, 05:13:07 PM »
...for a quick question I can't seem to find an answer to. I'm looking at the possibility of swapping a 4.6 modular ford engine into a car designed for half the cylinder count (heh heh) and among other things, I need to know if it'll fit under some conditions.

What I need the tech nerd for is this: I planned on using the aluminum block from the newer cobra engines, but possibly using the SOHC heads to save weight/fitting space, if that's possible. I understand the swap itself is a huge pain and requires modification to the front cover and all, but so far as I know the SOHC heads are smaller in dimension and lighter, both things I am looking for. Question is, just how much smaller is, say, a 3 valve SOHC head than the DOHC that comes with the aluminum block, and will it fit at all?

If any of you have articles or spec sheets you can point me at, or know the info off the top of your head, I'd appreciate it.

Soaring

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Re: I need to borrow a 4.6L tech nerd...
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2009, 11:01:49 PM »
What car are you proposing to put that beast in?  Do you have a measuring tape?   Use it.  Also, you will need a complete new front end regarding suspension even if that monster fits.  You will also need a new transmission and rear end, and a lot of cutting and adjusting for a fit like the drive shaft, etc.  You may want to reconsider this after getting all the prices. 

del82

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Re: I need to borrow a 4.6L tech nerd...
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2009, 11:44:39 PM »
Measuring tape, check. Engine? Not so much. I'm doing my research ahead of time, so I don't end up with a car without and engine and a giant V8 paperweight. I'll be getting the numbers I need this week on the car in question, a 95-up 240sx. Right now I'm thinking the problem spots will be the brake booster and steering shaft, after switching the engine over to a dry sump or front sump, I may still need to drop the rack down an inch or two. The crossmember is going to be modified or fabbed as well, I'll need to add some rigidity to the subframe for the engine, regardless of the fact I'll be starting it out mostly stock.

As for the suspension, that's really the funny part. The reason I'm looking at the aluminum block is fully assembled it's actually lighter than that POS truck motor that comes in it. 450 something lbs assembled vs. the KA's 473.

There are kits for the LS1 240zx swap, it actually fits rather nicely and if that's what I was going for, it'd definitely be easier...but in the end, I'm picky and I want that 4.6 instead :D Having the SOHC head may help with the booster clearance, along with further saving weight.

Again, any numbers, or rodders that have tried swapping the heads around, any info you have would be greatly appreciated. The local dealerships are mostly run by incompetents and folks I used to work with, and therefore have all the reason in the world not to listen to. Long story (= There's one good machine shop, but I don't suspect they handle odd head swaps like this very often.

Soaring

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Re: I need to borrow a 4.6L tech nerd...
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2009, 11:52:54 PM »
I don't think you are going to get the answers you need on this site.  Putting an American 4.6 into that car has never been done as far as I know.  I personally think you are crazy for even thinking of it, much less seriously deciding to do it. 

del82

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Re: I need to borrow a 4.6L tech nerd...
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2009, 12:50:41 AM »
You mean nobody knows anything about 4.6L heads on the Mustang forum? :P

I'll work out the possibilities myself, really I just need someone that's had a good deal of hands-on with the modular engine...

Besides, a little crazy makes the cars unique, yeah? Kinda like this.

Soaring

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Re: I need to borrow a 4.6L tech nerd...
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2009, 05:34:55 AM »
The page couldn't be displayed, but if you are talking about that 280Z with a 5.0 in it, yeah I have seen it.  It's a bastard.  Why go through all that trouble to create a bastard? 

crzylx

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Re: I need to borrow a 4.6L tech nerd...
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2009, 08:17:30 AM »
If your asking if you can use SOHC heads on DOHC block and vice versa, the short answer is yes. There's always exceptions to things.

How much smaller are the heads? Couldn't tell you, I've owned multiple 4v's and now own a 3v GT.. And I can tell you looking at it they do look smaller. But the amount may be deceiving because of the way the 05+ Engine Bay is setup.

crzylx

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Re: I need to borrow a 4.6L tech nerd...
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2009, 08:28:40 AM »
If I were you - I'd look at just buying a complete 05+ Motor. The block is pretty decent in all honesty, with the right piston/rod combo and crank possibly guys are making some pretty big power.. Like stupid power for a street car.

How much power do you plan on making with this car?

del82

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Re: I need to borrow a 4.6L tech nerd...
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2009, 09:54:34 AM »
If your asking if you can use SOHC heads on DOHC block and vice versa, the short answer is yes. There's always exceptions to things.

How much smaller are the heads? Couldn't tell you, I've owned multiple 4v's and now own a 3v GT.. And I can tell you looking at it they do look smaller. But the amount may be deceiving because of the way the 05+ Engine Bay is setup.

That's about what I needed to know. So long as the bolt holes will line up, I can get measurements here...eventually. If you come across any specs, lemme know.

The 05+ 3v motors are all iron blocks though, yes? As for the power output, I'll be leaving it very near stock for awhile. Wasn't planning on adding a lot of extra power anyway. Was just more of a "I really like this engine, and I really like this car" sort of thing. I was originally thinking about doing this with a Supra I had, but the car's just too heavy to make a really good track car out of. Mustangs are actually lighter than said Supra, but the 240 is about 600 lbs lighter than the stang, and it'll actually LOSE weight with the aluminum 4.6 engine, so its really a win-win.

crzylx

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Re: I need to borrow a 4.6L tech nerd...
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2009, 10:02:24 AM »
The 05+ Mustang 3v's have an Aluminum Block. Trucks are where you find cast iron blocks. The 03-04  4v Cobra's use a cast iron block...

I would really just buy an 05+ Motor you won't regret it and it will save you alot of time.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/05-07-FORD-MUSTANG-GT-4-6-3V-ENGINE-MOTOR-4K_W0QQitemZ140291808653QQihZ004QQcategoryZ33615QQssPageNameZWD1VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638Q2em118Q2el1247

del82

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Re: I need to borrow a 4.6L tech nerd...
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2009, 06:37:52 PM »
Sweet. That's good, guess I was just looking too far back. Found out today that the local machine shop has a few iron blocked 4.6 SOHC's they're working on, and they'll let me come in and get what measurements I need from em. Then later on this week I'll have access to a 240 shell to get those measurements :D

Took long enough, heh heh. Hopefully it'll work out the way I'm hoping it will.

Soaring

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Re: I need to borrow a 4.6L tech nerd...
« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2009, 07:06:06 PM »
Good luck with it bro.  Sounds like a fun project. 

del82

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Re: I need to borrow a 4.6L tech nerd...
« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2009, 09:24:22 PM »
Yaknow what's really annoying? I farted around on eBay for that same engine crzy, my search terms were "4.6L 3V" and it wouldn't show up =/

That price is so, sooooo much better than a brand new crate engine...which somehow only has a $14 shipping charge.

Soaring

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Re: I need to borrow a 4.6L tech nerd...
« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2009, 10:03:42 PM »
$14 bucks to ship a 4.6 engine?  Something is missing here. 

del82

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Re: I need to borrow a 4.6L tech nerd...
« Reply #14 on: January 15, 2009, 09:37:23 AM »
Well, the motor lists at $6400, so I figure after that kind of gouging they can offer a freebie, heh heh.

"http://www.latemodelrestoration.com/iwwida.pvx?;item?item_no=M60073V46      1&comp=LRS"

Course, that's all the bells and whistles too, and brand new, so I suppose its appropriate.

EDIT: Link doesn't seem to want to work as a link, so I had to just put it in quotes. Who has spaces in their web addresses anyway? ???


Soaring

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Re: I need to borrow a 4.6L tech nerd...
« Reply #15 on: January 15, 2009, 07:16:58 PM »
I owned a 240Z many moons ago, and that car was the biggest POS I have ever owned.  Not only did it heat up all the time, the physical things like seats, radio, etc, were junk.  Nice looking body though.   ;D

del82

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Re: I need to borrow a 4.6L tech nerd...
« Reply #16 on: January 16, 2009, 02:54:52 AM »
Yeah...the old Z cars weren't known for reliability. Didn't help that they were assembled overseas and shipped as complete units, most of em had rust on them when brand new because of the seawater.

Really, the idea was to take a shell that I particularly like, that follows the design of one of my favorite cars (that being the Supra), only lighter and better suited for cornering and such, and lose the gimp engine in favor of something that can move it along properly. Doesn't hurt that the noise that the 4.6 produces one of the best things I've ever heard, either :D

Oh, and also I'm actually looking at a 91-94 240sx, rather than the old 70's Z car. The ex drove one of those, so I had plenty of time to nitpick (and have to repair) all the things that were wrong with it.

Soaring

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Re: I need to borrow a 4.6L tech nerd...
« Reply #17 on: January 16, 2009, 03:50:14 AM »
Well, you definitely have a hard project ahead of you.   Good luck with it.

 

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